Episode 29

full
Published on:

1st May 2024

Grace to Grieve - Navigating God's "No's"

In this episode of Taboo Talk with Jay Lowder, Jay is joined by Andrea Waitley. Jay and Andrea discuss navigating trials, suffering, and trying to understand God's timing. In this podcast they talk about things we have all dealt with at one point or another- wanting immediate answers from God, wanting what feels like ongoing suffering to end, and so much more. Andrea shares an inspiring testimony of learning to trust God, even through the things that seem so unbearable at times. Andrea has written a devotional, and to purchase it you can email andreawaitley@gmail.com.

To follow Andrea's facebook page you can find her at: Cross My Heart Ministry - (3) Facebook

Transcript
Speaker:

Are you not entertained?

2

:

Get busy living, or get busy dying.

3

:

All we have to decide is what to do

with the time that is given to us.

4

:

Well, welcome to this week's edition

of taboo talk with Jay Louder.

5

:

I want to set the table a little

bit about our guest today.

6

:

So, um, Sharonda, many of

you heard Sharonda, she's

7

:

done some podcasts with me.

8

:

She's been a member of the harvest team

for gosh, I don't know, 14, 15 years.

9

:

And Sharonda lost her

mother a few months ago.

10

:

And it was very surprising matter of fact,

her mother was at church and unexpectedly

11

:

had a heart attack and passed away.

12

:

And so of course, it's been a difficult

time and trying time for her and her

13

:

family and her father, who is a preacher

and, and Andrea, in a minute, you may

14

:

have to clarify some of this, but.

15

:

He was somewhere and I believe he met you.

16

:

Did he not end Andrea?

17

:

He met you somewhere.

18

:

Is that correct?

19

:

He met a friend, he met a friend of mine.

20

:

Okay.

21

:

And, and she was the one

that gave him the book.

22

:

Is that correct?

23

:

Yes, that's right.

24

:

Okay.

25

:

So yeah, he met a friend of Andrea's

and this friend, uh, I guess knew that

26

:

he was grieving the loss of his wife.

27

:

And gave to him a book.

28

:

And so Sharonda one day

was telling me this story.

29

:

Now, Sharonda had not yet read this book.

30

:

It's a devotional it's

called grace to grieve.

31

:

And I want to be honest here.

32

:

We get a lot of stuff sent to us.

33

:

Um, We get books, we get sermons.

34

:

We have people that want to hand

me songs that they've written to

35

:

give to some of the, um, people

that we know in Christian music.

36

:

And I mean, we get bombarded with quite

a few things, but this was a short little

37

:

book and my father recently passed away.

38

:

So it's been a difficult

time for our family.

39

:

My, my daughter's struggling about to

have another surgery here in a few weeks.

40

:

And so anyway, Sharonda had not yet read

the book, but she brought it in my office

41

:

and was telling me about this devotion

that had had a huge impact on her father

42

:

.

And again, because I get so many things like this, I, it's impossible

43

:

for me to read every book and

to read every sermon idea and.

44

:

And every new song that I should and

could promote to people that I know,

45

:

but I just picked it up and thought,

I'm just going to peruse this book.

46

:

And I say a book, I mean, the truth

of it is you could read this devotion.

47

:

Oh gosh, I don't know.

48

:

You could probably read the whole thing

if you just read it through in 30 minutes.

49

:

But I just randomly started flipping

through it and I read something

50

:

and I said, golly, that is strong.

51

:

And then I flipped another page

because sometimes somebody has

52

:

a good day, but that doesn't

mean the whole books that way.

53

:

And then I read something else and it

resonated with me even more long and short

54

:

of it is, is I sit there in my office.

55

:

And I read this devotion cover to cover.

56

:

And I walked in and said, Sharonda, you

have got to read this knowing that she

57

:

was grieving the loss of her mother.

58

:

And, uh, and she knows me well

enough to know for me to be that

59

:

excited about something and.

60

:

to be that expressive about

something impacting me.

61

:

And I said, I don't know who this lady is.

62

:

We've got to find out who she is.

63

:

And I want to buy several copies.

64

:

And so we bought several

copies of this devotion.

65

:

And it's just, you know, the

truth of the matter is, is a

66

:

lot of people are struggling

and a lot of people are hurting.

67

:

And if that's you, this devotion

is something that you got to get.

68

:

So with all that being said, Andrea

Watley, welcome to today's podcast.

69

:

I apologize.

70

:

Well, I'm glad you cleared that up.

71

:

I want you to know your devotion has just,

I mean, again, I, I'm at a loss for words,

72

:

some of the things that you've written.

73

:

And obviously you can tell that

you're speaking from a heart that

74

:

loves the Lord, but you're also

speaking from a heart of transparency,

75

:

authenticity, and true pain and sorrow.

76

:

And before we get into that, because I

actually want to read, um, just some of

77

:

the, I mean, I could read the whole thing.

78

:

Um, and I think our, our listeners

would be really impacted by it, but

79

:

I do want to read segments of it.

80

:

But before we get into that, just

so our listeners have a little bit

81

:

of an understanding of who you are.

82

:

Andre, tell us about how old were

you when you came to know Christ

83

:

and how did you come to know Christ

before we get too deep into this?

84

:

All right, well, Jay, at 15

years old, I received the gospel.

85

:

Prior to that,

86

:

who invested in me, uh, over and

over with the scriptures, uh, with

87

:

prayer, by taking us to church,

uh, a good foundation was laid.

88

:

And I watched them walk through such

hard places and, and really lean

89

:

into the Lord, that, that, for any

of us to, life is to embrace Jesus.

90

:

Knowing the Lord, I want to give my age.

91

:

I was 15 and I'm not anymore

92

:

that's been my journey.

93

:

Ministry now.

94

:

Ministry called Cross Mind.

95

:

Ministry called Grace to Grieve.

96

:

Ministry taken from the book.

97

:

Both ministries are the fact that we

are to live our lives in such a way

98

:

that we bring honor and glory to God.

99

:

And we, Reassure others that he

always intends to do good to them.

100

:

Well, tell me this, Andre, have you

always been a writer or is this something

101

:

that's relatively new that was birthed

out of the pain that you've gone through?

102

:

No, I tell you what,

Jay, I love to journal.

103

:

I love to read.

104

:

And then I've all

105

:

pen and tape

106

:

just get along and just record

those things that he impresses on my

107

:

six years old to be with Jesus.

108

:

Those things that you're reading

were the things that God been

109

:

to me as I greet that law.

110

:

Now, I don't want to get too

far ahead of things because I

111

:

do want to break down the story.

112

:

But was this book written, our

listeners don't know this, but you've

113

:

actually, two husbands have died.

114

:

Was this book actually written the

death of the first husband or the

115

:

husband you lost about a year ago?

116

:

This one was written is this

117

:

Well, I think that's a wonderful idea.

118

:

Andrea, oftentimes those of us

who are believers and I've even

119

:

been guilty of this in regards

to the health of my daughter.

120

:

I won't get into that today, but

our listeners are well aware of it.

121

:

I've got a daughter that has an incurable

disease and we've watched her suffer.

122

:

And I even mentioned earlier, she.

123

:

She's having hip surgery.

124

:

I mean, here she is in her early

twenties and she's having hip

125

:

surgery as though she were an 80

year old woman in just a few weeks.

126

:

And it's been very, very difficult

just watching her suffer and the

127

:

pain that she's gone through.

128

:

And the truth of it is, and let me

quantify this because I know the

129

:

scripture says that God sends the

rain on the just and the unjust.

130

:

And I also know that just because

I'm a believer, does not make me

131

:

immune to pain and suffering that

I was not created for this life.

132

:

I was created for the next.

133

:

However if I'm to be completely

honest, There has been a side of

134

:

me that even though spiritually and

intellectually, I know better than this.

135

:

There has been a side of me

that has said, Lord, I've spent

136

:

my life preaching the gospel.

137

:

I've spent my life trying to serve you.

138

:

I know that I have a

lot of holes in my life.

139

:

I know I'm not perfect.

140

:

I know there's a lot of things that

I need to work on, but there has

141

:

been a side of me that's felt like.

142

:

God, surely, I mean, I'm

only asking for one thing.

143

:

I'm not even asking for my

daughter's disease to go away.

144

:

I'm only asking for you

to stop the suffering.

145

:

And there has been a side that

even though I know it's not correct

146

:

thinking, there's been a side of

me that said, Lord, I'm sorry.

147

:

I've never told the Lord he owes

me this, but the truth of it is

148

:

I have felt like he owed me this.

149

:

Now, again, I want to clarify.

150

:

I know that what the Lord really owes

me is an eternity separated from God.

151

:

I know that.

152

:

But yet the human side of me has

said, Lord, I mean, surely I'm

153

:

just not asking for that much.

154

:

, and you could at least Stop

the suffering of my daughter.

155

:

And there have been times that I have

been angry at God for feeling like,

156

:

honestly, I, again, I'm, I, I hate to

admit it, but feeling as though not

157

:

necessarily that he owes me, but this

is the least that he could do for me.

158

:

And he hasn't done it and

I'm having to accept it.

159

:

And again, my daughter's

on a Walker right now.

160

:

And she's going to be in a

wheelchair for at least three months.

161

:

So I say all that to say to you,

um, you have experienced obviously

162

:

a tremendous amount of pain.

163

:

You have lost two husbands due to death.

164

:

I can't help but wonder, have

you ever had those thoughts?

165

:

I mean, has there been a

season where you've gone,

166

:

okay, God, I lost one husband.

167

:

Isn't that enough?

168

:

I mean, or is that not something

that you struggle with?

169

:

It's something I sure

170

:

he was kidney cancer.

171

:

It was through his spot.

172

:

It's an amazing sense of humor that when

the doctor told him, he said, Larry,

173

:

it's in your line, all your major organs.

174

:

And he looked at it and he said,

well, that just plays heck with it.

175

:

Doesn't it?

176

:

And the doctor looked at him,

didn't really know how, but then

177

:

Larry said something in prayer.

178

:

He said, you know what, doc, you're

my option, but Jesus Christ is my

179

:

hope and I'll put my trust in him.

180

:

Wow.

181

:

And he did.

182

:

After he died, my bedroom matches

to heaven and in the whole

183

:

eternity, did Larry really to die?

184

:

Jay, it got

185

:

spirit, a very quiet, yes,

186

:

to trust this God who said he loved me.

187

:

And I think that we start.

188

:

Trying to determine God's love for us

based on our circumstances and what's

189

:

going on, rather than what God says

His definition of love for us is.

190

:

And His definition of love is that

He sent His Son to die in our place,

191

:

to take the punishment we deserve,

to live the life we couldn't live.

192

:

And that's God's definition of love.

193

:

And one of the things that I have come to

realize when I want to kick against all

194

:

these hard places and these hard things

is the Lord's begun to teach me, says,

195

:

would you trust a love that loves you

too much to not do everything it takes

196

:

to conform you to the image of my son?

197

:

It's just so hard though, when,

when, when that building of the trust

198

:

requires the suffering of someone else.

199

:

It is.

200

:

Seriously, Lord, you want

me to watch this child?

201

:

So know that there are times that

God asks us to step into the place of

202

:

identification with Him, and He shares His

heart with us of the things that cause Him

203

:

pain, and that cause His heart to break.

204

:

And, What you had, what you're having

to watch with your daughter is that

205

:

stepping into God is pulling you

alongside himself and saying, Jay,

206

:

I'm giving you a very sacred space

with me and showing you what's in my

207

:

heart is I watch my Children suffer.

208

:

Yeah, it's just so hard to accept and, and

obviously, I mean, you're wise beyond your

209

:

years and reading your devotion makes that

absolutely clear and you certainly have a

210

:

lot more wisdom than I do and you're a lot

more further in your walk with the Lord.

211

:

No, but it is because what you're

saying, because I've done it.

212

:

You, you want to go to, if you'd leave it

up to me, I'd make her and I did quickly

213

:

stop, I would at least make this go away.

214

:

And I don't understand why you don't.

215

:

And, and those are the, those

are just those hard places that

216

:

just this side of heaven, we are

never going to get to understand.

217

:

So you've gotten to a place

where you no longer question it.

218

:

I mean, because I'm not lost a

spouse, but I would think if I lost

219

:

one, as difficult as that would be.

220

:

If I was at round two losing another,

I mean, it would be very difficult for

221

:

me not to say, okay, really, because

I mean, you talked about trusting

222

:

God and it's real easy to trust God

when things are going your way and

223

:

everything's fine and the finances

are fine and the family's fine, but

224

:

it's another thing, trusting God.

225

:

When the bottom falls out, it really

is, but you know, Peter tells us that

226

:

that is how we come to the place of

knowing that this genuine is when

227

:

it's big because it's just sitting

in the dock and just floating there.

228

:

But if you get that boat out on and it

doesn't fit in his, It's not genuine.

229

:

It

230

:

is genuine, but he wants us

231

:

that we were garaged for both.

232

:

We were both very determined

233

:

on who Jesus said he was and

have him be at the center of it.

234

:

Minister said until death do you part.

235

:

He said, yeah, in 40 or 50 years.

236

:

Well, I got just short of nine years

and I can remember being so angry

237

:

with God and saying I wanted 40 years

and the Lord, he just showed me.

238

:

He said, I never promised you 40 years.

239

:

I promise you.

240

:

That you would do that marriage well,

that you would live the gospel through

241

:

that marriage, and that's what we did.

242

:

And so when, uh, when the Lord

brought Frank Whateley into my

243

:

life in a miraculous way, when he

brought Frank Whateley into my life,

244

:

Frank was 17 years older than me.

245

:

And I had been praying that, Lord, if you

have someone for me, you have to send him.

246

:

And he did.

247

:

And when Frank told me how much older

he was than me, uh, I was, I hung up

248

:

the phone from our first conversation,

and, uh, I knew I'd been praying, and

249

:

I'd asked the Lord to give me a Boaz.

250

:

And, uh, As Frank and I talked

more and more, I said, Lord,

251

:

he is so much older than me.

252

:

And the Lord said, you

asked me for a Boaz.

253

:

And Boaz was older than Rick.

254

:

And as things progressed, and

I knew the Lord was putting us

255

:

together, I said, Lord, he's

probably going to die before I do.

256

:

He's that much older.

257

:

He's going to die before I do.

258

:

And the Lord said, has my grace

been sufficient with Larry?

259

:

When you lost Larry, and of

course it was, and he said,

260

:

don't you think it will be again?

261

:

And he was right because God cannot lie.

262

:

And I tell people a lot of times,

the things I learned through Larry's

263

:

going to be with Jesus, I know.

264

:

After Frank having gone to be with

Jesus, uh, it's just that having

265

:

learned it and then getting to walk in

the knowing of it, that he really, I'm

266

:

not afraid of the pain anymore, Jay.

267

:

That's right.

268

:

It's not that the pain's not there.

269

:

It just doesn't scare me anymore.

270

:

What a statement.

271

:

Not afraid of the pain anymore.

272

:

I'm actually writing that down.

273

:

I mean, just a statement in and of itself.

274

:

Uh, I'm not afraid of the pain.

275

:

I mean, which tells me at some level

you've learned how to embrace it.

276

:

If I consume me and put me in

the pit, then I've given it, I've

277

:

given it, uh, I've become enslaved,

278

:

enslaved by Jesus Christ.

279

:

Pain has

280

:

no control.

281

:

It's not that it's not real.

282

:

It's not that it doesn't hurt.

283

:

But it's just that you

don't scare me anymore.

284

:

You're not gonna do me in.

285

:

You know, over and over in

Psalms, it talks about the

286

:

snares of the grave.

287

:

Uh, surrounded me.

288

:

And it's not really, that's

not about the person who died.

289

:

That's us.

290

:

That's what the enemy wants to do to us.

291

:

He wants us to, quote, die

with the person who died.

292

:

And that is not breathing with hope

and it's not breathing with grace.

293

:

And I'm not going to let the enemy be

able to say that he was too much for me.

294

:

Wow.

295

:

Well, you made a statement earlier about

pain and suffering, revealing our faith.

296

:

And to be quite frank, that's been

another discouraging factor because.

297

:

It has revealed to me that my

faith is not near as strong or

298

:

as deep as it's supposed to be.

299

:

I agree with what you're saying

that pain does reveal it.

300

:

Matter of fact, just last night, I

only read probably about a while.

301

:

I know exactly how many I read.

302

:

I read eight verses out of James

chapter one, and you're probably

303

:

familiar, but starting in verse two,

it says, knowing that the trying of

304

:

your faith develops patience and,

um, I, I got a deeper view of that.

305

:

As I was studying it and it was saying

that the trying of your faith, so

306

:

that would encompass adversities and

struggles and trials and temptations

307

:

and everything that goes with it.

308

:

It, but it was actually a reference

to really what you're talking about

309

:

in that the trying of your faith

works patients and let patients

310

:

have its perfect work in you.

311

:

But it was, it's like a validation

in the, in the original language.

312

:

It basically was saying that in the

same way that maybe if you go to a store

313

:

and you hand them a 100 bill, you'll

often see that they'll make a mark

314

:

on it and they'll make a mark on it.

315

:

Because somehow that That pin

that they use verifies whether

316

:

or not that hundred dollar bill

is authentic or if it's a phony.

317

:

And so what, what James was saying,

the half brother of Christ was

318

:

saying that part of what adversity

and trial and temptation and

319

:

problems is, it reveals your faith.

320

:

And then when it says, but let

patience have its perfect work in you.

321

:

I got another insight that I did not have

until last night that patients didn't

322

:

mean that you just learn how to endure it.

323

:

You just learn how to gut it out.

324

:

No, that that not only does it reveal

your faith, but the purpose of it is, is

325

:

not just so you can gut it out and just.

326

:

You know, sludge through the pain and

suffering, but so that you can grow

327

:

and you can develop and you can learn.

328

:

So it's kind of a two fold

application here where these

329

:

adversities come in your life.

330

:

Because as you said, God already

knows the depth or the strength of the

331

:

weakness of your faith, but it reveals

to you what it is so that when you

332

:

see it, It gives you the ability to

have a change of perspective on it.

333

:

It gives you the ability to change

how you respond to it, which

334

:

I think is what you're saying.

335

:

That's exactly what I'm saying.

336

:

It's been teaching me, it's the amount of,

337

:

it's the object of my faith.

338

:

Jesus is that little faith,

as long as that faith is in

339

:

him, as long as it's in him.

340

:

Totally placed in his ability to do

what he sees best then is he not.

341

:

You know, Lord, instead of trying to

muster it up, going through his attributes

342

:

and, and begin to look at who he he's, to

343

:

definition of joy and joy of

344

:

to increase my joy, then I

begin to think his anxious

345

:

he's me.

346

:

What strengthens us is when we begin

to celebrate who he's, did you ever

347

:

go through a season like I have where?

348

:

As we talk about what adversity

does and revealing the strength

349

:

of the weakness of your faith.

350

:

On top of the discouragement of

watching pain and suffering added

351

:

to that has been the realization of

how much I had overestimated my own

352

:

faith in God in my own walk with him.

353

:

Did you ever go through that where it

was revealed to you that your faith

354

:

wasn't as strong as you thought it

was and your commitment to Christ?

355

:

God doesn't view of our estimation

356

:

of Europe.

357

:

My

358

:

goodness, when we had kidney cancer

359

:

and do this, you know, and you

didn't even ask permission,

360

:

I don't feel the need to say,

361

:

he says he's good.

362

:

I understand.

363

:

Did you beat yourself up?

364

:

Like I have at times for the

realization that my faith is not

365

:

as strong as it should be, or

because I've been angry at God.

366

:

I mean, when you reflected and looked at.

367

:

Some of the weakness that you

saw, because again, it to me,

368

:

it added insult to injury.

369

:

And if you did do that, like I have,

how did you recalibrate that thinking

370

:

where rather than beating yourself up

for not being as strong as you should

371

:

be being able to move past that?

372

:

I tell you what, having faithful friends.

373

:

Who would speak the truth to me.

374

:

Jesus is never, we are.

375

:

And he knew what he was getting.

376

:

Fears, my patience, my, is not gonna

be, it's not gonna put him off.

377

:

He's not,

378

:

he's not irritated with us.

379

:

Disappointed in us.

380

:

He knew what he was getting.

381

:

And to have,

382

:

Jesus is always known.

383

:

You know, that we're

384

:

being human.

385

:

I don't, he pities his children.

386

:

He remembers that we're dead.

387

:

He knows, he knows what he's got in us.

388

:

He knows what he, and nothing

ever made him love me.

389

:

To begin with, so nothing can

ever make him stop loving me.

390

:

Yeah, I agree with that wholeheartedly.

391

:

But at the same time, I do feel like

that not only have I been let down with

392

:

him, that he's been let down with me.

393

:

And I, I, I feel like he's justified to

be let down with me because There have

394

:

been seasons where I've walked away and

where I have been bitter rather than

395

:

buckling down in my relationship with him.

396

:

I've ran away from him.

397

:

And so, um, I'm, I'm let down with me.

398

:

I feel like he ought

to be let down with me.

399

:

Yeah,

400

:

but how do you not impart your

humanness to a divine being?

401

:

How do you do that?

402

:

Well, that take, as I really, you know,

Che, that really does take discipline.

403

:

It takes, uh, that's what Paul meant

in, in Romans 12 where he said, be, uh,

404

:

transformed by the renewing of your mind.

405

:

It's constant, you know, repentance,

repentance isn't so much beating our

406

:

chest and I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

407

:

Repentance is constantly changing our

mind to be in agreement with who God

408

:

says He is and who He says we are.

409

:

And so it.

410

:

That is sanctification, really, uh,

That is the growing imperfection and

411

:

maturity like you were talking about

in James, that the more we get in

412

:

agreement with God, then the greater

our joy, the greater our peace, the

413

:

greater our sense of well being.

414

:

Yeah, I agree with that too, but

I think that's part of my problem.

415

:

I've had a hard time getting

in agreement with him.

416

:

Um, that's, that's oftentimes been

very difficult, but you know, pain

417

:

really for me has been a mirror.

418

:

Yeah.

419

:

And it's not been a mirror into God.

420

:

Oftentimes it's been a mirror into

my own weakness in my own frailty.

421

:

Exactly.

422

:

Exactly.

423

:

It really is.

424

:

But there's no shame.

425

:

You know, we tend to have shame, but

Jesus said He's already born our shame.

426

:

And so, anything that we see is not

so that we'll beat ourselves up.

427

:

It's so that we'll receive from

Him the grace and redemption and

428

:

restoration that He longs to give us.

429

:

You're so far ahead of me.

430

:

I tell you what, I admire you.

431

:

I mean, I just, uh, I'm not there.

432

:

I want to be there.

433

:

And again, reading, I think that's why

your book had such a, your devotion had

434

:

such an impact on me because The insight

that you have and the spiritual depth

435

:

that you have, um, I don't know your age

and I don't want to know it, but I can

436

:

tell you this, God has obviously done an

incredible work in you just even reading.

437

:

Matter of fact, if you don't mind,

I want to just read a few things.

438

:

Um, I could read this whole thing, but

there's a few things that, um, I just

439

:

want to read that they're, they're to

me, they're almost beyond what I can.

440

:

Can what I can even explain, but

let me read one from day one and

441

:

it's out of Romans chapter 12.

442

:

And, uh, you're talking about this

new kind of life that you have

443

:

now that your husband is deceased.

444

:

And having a new identity.

445

:

Matter of fact, let me just read it.

446

:

Today is a day I slowly and

painfully begin a new kind of life.

447

:

Today I begin having a new identity.

448

:

So much of my grieve comes not only

from missing my loved one, but this

449

:

is the statement that, wow, but I

miss who I was when we were together.

450

:

That's one of the first things I

read, obviously it's day one and I

451

:

just love the realness of, I mean,

I've never thought of it like that.

452

:

And having just lost my father, uh, again,

this really, this really rang a bell

453

:

with me, but just not even having known

you at that time in reading your book.

454

:

And I just love this transparency,

this thought of, it's not just

455

:

the pain of losing someone I love.

456

:

It's losing what I was

with this individual.

457

:

I don't know, for some reason, that

statement is so powerful to me.

458

:

Right.

459

:

You know, Jay, when we suddenly do

stuff, two losses, like you lost your

460

:

father, but you lost who you were,

and so that's a shocker to people.

461

:

It's like, it's like, you know,

you talk to people who cared for

462

:

someone who was sick for a long

time, and that was their identity.

463

:

was loving and caring for that person,

and then they're gone, and they don't

464

:

even know what to do with themselves.

465

:

And so it's that, not only do we

need grace to grieve the person we

466

:

lost, but we also need the grace

that God wants to give us today.

467

:

Who we are important

468

:

in the group is Lord.

469

:

Give me the grace to

teach me who I am now.

470

:

Who, where is my identity now?

471

:

Yeah.

472

:

And that's what, that was the shock.

473

:

And, uh, it was such a shock.

474

:

I want to read something else.

475

:

Um, I want to read a few different

things, but here's another one.

476

:

Uh, I mean, we're just

on day two, excuse me.

477

:

Um, this is the most exquisite

pain I have ever known.

478

:

You wrote.

479

:

I, and I love this.

480

:

I find myself wanting to get away from it.

481

:

I think everybody can understand that.

482

:

I want to, I want to run from

this pain, but then this is the

483

:

statement that you add to it.

484

:

Not only do you want to get away from

it, but then you go on to say yet at the

485

:

same time, I want to wrap myself in it.

486

:

That's something else that just really

connected with me because I think, and you

487

:

know, so many people are struggling and

facing pain from all different aspects.

488

:

I've never heard anybody say this.

489

:

I've never heard anybody write this,

but there's such an element of truth

490

:

to this, that there is a side of

us oftentimes that does want to run

491

:

away from it and wants to escape.

492

:

But then there is a another, and

I believe natural side where we

493

:

don't want to run away from it.

494

:

We want to wrap ourself in it.

495

:

Do you feel like now on the backside

of that, and I hate to say the

496

:

backside cause you never get over it,

but for lack of better vernacular,

497

:

do you find yourself even now still

wanting to wrap yourself in it?

498

:

You can help me to not place

of denial, pretending it

499

:

never happened, but it helped

500

:

me understand this really did happen

living life on again, really Jay

501

:

for the first time in my life,

502

:

because when Larry died, I

503

:

just left.

504

:

Wow.

505

:

Yeah, there's so many things that

you say that it kind of reminds me of

506

:

sometimes when I read this scripture,

um, I can sometimes, I mean, there

507

:

are times I can read two chapters

and not tell you a thing I read.

508

:

And there's times that I can read three

verses and I can sit there and meditate

509

:

on that and think through the context

of it and what's being said and how it

510

:

applies to me and can literally think

on three verses for an hour and a half.

511

:

And some of what you write, I

feel that same thing that, okay,

512

:

I can just read this so quickly.

513

:

But I can also sit here and meditate

on, let me, let's move on to day five.

514

:

And you say this so much of the pain

comes from fighting this, hating

515

:

it, not wanting it to be this way.

516

:

I can feel myself having a

screaming, kicking tantrum.

517

:

I can hear my heart crying out, change it.

518

:

Change it.

519

:

And the only answer is

a silent, quiet, no.

520

:

And then your afterthought on that is

Lord helped me to accept your answer.

521

:

Again, just a bold, blatant reality that

when we go through pain, we do that.

522

:

We want to kick, we want to scream.

523

:

We want to fight.

524

:

But if we don't get to the place that you

talked about, where we realize we can't

525

:

change it, that the answer is, no, you're

not going to change it when the answer

526

:

is, this is the way it's going to be.

527

:

And because I'm God, you got to trust

me, as you said, in an afterthought,

528

:

and I don't know if that's exactly

what you said, but, but the

529

:

closing statement is getting to the

place where we accept the answer.

530

:

It doesn't mean that we

rejoice in the answer.

531

:

It doesn't mean that we like

the answer, but it means that we

532

:

understand we can't change it.

533

:

The answer is no, this is the way that

God and his sovereignty has decided.

534

:

And so we can either be bitter, jaded,

angry, resentful, and we can shipwreck

535

:

our faith, or we can say, God, I don't

like it, but I know that the answer is no.

536

:

And so help me to embrace it.

537

:

That's exactly right.

538

:

I mean, Joe, you couldn't

have any better choices.

539

:

We're either going to ship right.

540

:

That's it.

541

:

And I've got rested.

542

:

He has got just rest in that.

543

:

Yeah.

544

:

I just love though, that there's so

many devotions out there that are

545

:

just so sappy and they're not real.

546

:

And I just love the fact

that you're just real about

547

:

read this much material.

548

:

I can't.

549

:

Think that far anymore, my

mind's too tired, too much pain.

550

:

And so when I wrote this into a

devotional, I intentionally thought

551

:

I'm just going to keep this short

and let people just have these

552

:

little thoughts to think on.

553

:

And then maybe that's another

thing I like about it.

554

:

You know, I mean, what I

just read was day five.

555

:

It's, I don't know, let me see one.

556

:

Two, three, four, five sentences in

this devotion for this one day is five

557

:

sentences and you go, well, what am

I going to get out of five sentences?

558

:

But the truth of the matter is if

you're a person who really and truly.

559

:

Is going through pain, then you

know that this one paragraph that

560

:

you wrote is a reality for you.

561

:

You have hated it.

562

:

You wanted to stop it.

563

:

And at some point you've had to

come to the conclusion that God

564

:

is saying, you can't change it.

565

:

It's not gonna change.

566

:

And the answer is no.

567

:

And, and, and so there is only

really one response that's left.

568

:

I mean, you can do a lot of things.

569

:

You, you can turn to

illicit relationships.

570

:

You can turn to escape mechanisms

through drugs or alcohol or a myriad

571

:

of other things, or you can say, God,

I understand that the answer is no.

572

:

And even though I don't get

it, I'm going to accept it.

573

:

And so I think even just in this one

paragraph, it gives people an opportunity

574

:

To look at and go, this is where I

am and this is what I'm going to do.

575

:

Maybe the succinctness, the simplicity

of it is another thing I love.

576

:

Um, and most of the

devotions are like that.

577

:

They're just a paragraph or so, right?

578

:

Yes.

579

:

They're all very, very short for that

very reason, because I understand

580

:

that people who are grieving,

especially when they're in the.

581

:

Freshness of it, the ability

to concentrate, the attention

582

:

span is just about zero.

583

:

And so, uh, I wanted to share my

thoughts, uh, in a way that people could,

584

:

it would resonate with them, but it

wouldn't overwhelm them or wear them out

585

:

trying to read a whole bunch of words.

586

:

Somebody strung together because

I found that most people pretty

587

:

much get things said in the first

paragraph and then they just repeat

588

:

themselves for several chapters.

589

:

That's true.

590

:

And again, that's why I was trying to

be really frank at the beginning when.

591

:

She brought this book in, I mean, I was

in the midst of my father dying and I'm

592

:

like, I don't want another Christian ease.

593

:

Let go.

594

:

Let God response.

595

:

And quite honestly, I figured, yeah.

596

:

And honestly, I figured that

that's what this was going to be.

597

:

And it was just a

providence of God, I think.

598

:

And I just flipped open and when I

don't remember what it was that I read

599

:

the first time, but I'm like, wow.

600

:

Well, let me, let me, I thought,

I thought maybe you were having a

601

:

good day and one devotion was going

to be good, but I found out that,

602

:

uh, there is so many zingers here.

603

:

I'm going to move on to day 50.

604

:

I'm going to read one more.

605

:

I don't want to read the whole thing

because our listeners really need to get a

606

:

copy of this, but let's move on to day 50.

607

:

It's out of Isaiah chapter 43 verse four.

608

:

The verse is, since you are precious

and honored in my sight, because I love

609

:

you, I will give men in exchange for you

and people in exchange for your life.

610

:

And this is what you wrote.

611

:

If I give myself completely to this, if I

totally let it go and rest it solely with

612

:

the Lord, if I can once and for all lay it

down and never question it again, will I

613

:

see the kingdom of God spread through me?

614

:

Question one.

615

:

Will people come out of darkness

and into the light again?

616

:

I think anybody going through real

pain and I'm not talking about,

617

:

you know, rain today, I'm talking

about really suffering and pain.

618

:

I think that's a question that people

are asking that if I do let go of this

619

:

God, which as you said earlier that we

read, there's a side of me that wants

620

:

to kick and scream and run from it.

621

:

There's a side of me

that wants to embrace it.

622

:

But God, what if.

623

:

What if I really do let go of this and

what what's going to be the result?

624

:

And you, you pose the question,

will darkness be exposed and

625

:

come into the light and will it

bring people into your kingdom?

626

:

And then this is.

627

:

The statement that you make at the very

end, Lord, is this what you are offering?

628

:

You, you pose a question and then you

give an answer because you already

629

:

know that this is what he's offering

because it's already happened.

630

:

And then you said this, I

will accept your offer again.

631

:

I, I just hope, I don't know

our listeners listening to this.

632

:

I don't know if this impacts

you the way that it impacts me.

633

:

And again, maybe it's because

Man, I'm struggling right now.

634

:

My family's struggling.

635

:

My mom's struggling.

636

:

My marriage is struggling.

637

:

My daughter's struggling.

638

:

I'm struggling ministry, struggling.

639

:

It it's, and maybe that's why

it resonates with me because I'm

640

:

in a difficult place right now.

641

:

But I think the crux of the matter is

this statement, these two statements.

642

:

Number one is, is what's

going to be the result?

643

:

If I let go, will your kingdom be built?

644

:

Will darkness be exposed?

645

:

But then you answer your own question.

646

:

And you say what I think a lot of us

have not yet said, maybe not gotten

647

:

to the place yet, but you said,

Lord, I accept what you have offered.

648

:

I take the offering and it's

real easy to take the offering

649

:

when the offering is good.

650

:

But when the offering is pain,

are we willing to accept it?

651

:

Which goes back to my earlier statement

about serving God when things are

652

:

going well, that's an easy thing to do.

653

:

But when the offering is not what

you wanted, And when the offering

654

:

breaks your heart, when it annihilates

your soul, when it steals your joy,

655

:

will you still accept the offering?

656

:

And I think, ma'am, that's

what makes you great.

657

:

I, I know what you say.

658

:

It's not you.

659

:

It's God in you.

660

:

And I know that's true, but your,

your walk with God is a great God

661

:

because a great walk, because you have

gotten to the place where you have

662

:

accepted an offering that nobody wants.

663

:

And Jay, you know, it is grace.

664

:

I always say that grace is the

God given ability to do what

665

:

would otherwise be impossible.

666

:

And it's impossible to offer the

sacrifice of praise, the sacrifice of

667

:

thanksgiving, without the grace of God.

668

:

And I heard something the other day

that really resonated with me, that

669

:

it is only here in the hard place,

That we can make the sacrifice of

670

:

praise because when we get to heaven,

it won't be a sacrifice But here in

671

:

this place in the heart Will we offer?

672

:

The sacrifice of praise

because he's worthy.

673

:

So powerful.

674

:

The name of this devotion

is grace to grieve.

675

:

Uh, as I said earlier to

devotional, it's written by Andrea.

676

:

What am I saying?

677

:

It right?

678

:

Wait, Lee, Andrea, wait, wait.

679

:

Okay.

680

:

I got you.

681

:

And honestly, we ordered

numerous copies of it.

682

:

Um, I say we did, uh, my staff did.

683

:

I don't even know how can people get

a copy of this because we have a bunch

684

:

of them, but again, I've got staff

that kind of handled that for me.

685

:

How do people get a copy of this?

686

:

Uh, I tell you what, if they

will email me at Andrew at gmail.

687

:

com, A N D R E A W A I T L E Y at gmail.

688

:

com, we will, uh, we'll be

happy to get them copies of it.

689

:

Well, I want to encourage

everybody to get a copy of it.

690

:

And again, if you're looking

for a book, this is not it.

691

:

I mean, you could, you You

could breeze through this whole

692

:

thing in 30 minutes or less.

693

:

But again, as I said earlier, I think

a lot of it is, uh, I know it's not

694

:

scripture, but it has scripture in it, but

it's a lot like scripture in the aspect

695

:

that You can read some of these mostly

for the most part are paragraphs and you

696

:

can read them and there's such so much

depth to it that you can really mull over

697

:

it and ponder it and think it through.

698

:

And again, if you're really going

through some difficult times,

699

:

there's not a doubt in my mind

that, uh, that this would resonate.

700

:

I mean, it certainly has with me.

701

:

Andrea, I know also you have a

podcast that you do semi weekly.

702

:

If I understand correctly, the

name of that podcast podcast

703

:

is the long and short of it.

704

:

Is that correct?

705

:

Yes, that's correct.

706

:

The long and short of it.

707

:

I do it with my friend, Terry Meyer,

and we just have a, just a great

708

:

time talking about what it looks

like to do our faith in real time,

709

:

how to live out faith in real time.

710

:

And it's really geared for

Christian women, correct?

711

:

And it's available on

iTunes or every platform.

712

:

Right.

713

:

Yes.

714

:

You can get it on the, on the, uh,

the Spotify being the podcast, you

715

:

know, the podcast is available there.

716

:

Also, I'd love for people to check

out our Facebook page, uh, cross

717

:

my heart ministry on Facebook.

718

:

Awesome.

719

:

And they can get a lot of

information about how to get in

720

:

touch with us and everything.

721

:

Well, and, and also, um, Andrea

does some speaking as well.

722

:

So.

723

:

Um, gosh, I hope to one day, I know

you're, you're leaving Colorado and

724

:

moving back to the promised land of Texas.

725

:

And, uh, I'm, I'm hoping since, yeah.

726

:

And you're actually moving about

two hours from where my office

727

:

sits in, in Wichita Falls, Texas.

728

:

I'm hoping one day to get

an opportunity to meet you.

729

:

I honestly, I truly mean it when I say.

730

:

Even though I've never met you face to

face, I have such a deep respect for you.

731

:

And honestly, uh, I mean

it with all sincerity.

732

:

I hope to sooner than later get to the

place where you have, and I can truly

733

:

get where I am grieving with grace.

734

:

Um, you're an awesome lady.

735

:

A lot, a lot of wisdom, you know,

I, again, I read James one last

736

:

night says if any, One lacks wisdom.

737

:

Let him ask of God and he

gives to all people liberally.

738

:

And he's certainly giving

you a heavy dose of it.

739

:

I do.

740

:

And he is a good and gracious God.

741

:

And he loves to lavish us

the things that he knows.

742

:

Andrea, thank you so much.

743

:

You're an incredible lady.

744

:

I hope many people get your book,

many blessings on you and yours.

745

:

Thank you, Jay.

Next Episode All Episodes Previous Episode

Listen for free

Show artwork for Taboo Talk

About the Podcast

Taboo Talk
Jay Lowder tackles taboo topics within the church.
There are certain topics that are considered "taboo" within the church. Jay Lowder and his guests will discuss subjects that are important and relevant but often not discussed openly in church and the Christian community at large. You will hear emotional, insightful, & encouraging discussions on topics you have wondered about in the past. Jay and unique personalities will address the realities of life, marriage, suicide, sex, overcoming addictions, abuse and much more. We will release a new podcast on the first and third Wednesday of each month. Stay tuned for good topics coming your way!
Support This Show

About your hosts

Admin Lowder

Profile picture for Admin Lowder

Jay Lowder

Profile picture for Jay Lowder